Opinion - Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no) (2024)

Cleansweep17 said:

The AFL record books, Dusty has the most decorated season in the game. Nothing else will matter in time. Leigh Matthews himself said nobody has had a “greater” season than Dustin Martin.

But you know I’m sure you BF experts know more than him.

Click to expand...

So you think Leigh Matthews is the be all and end all? Also easy to find the soundbite of one person who fits your narrative.

Also if you really want to do this, lets do this. Here are the top 5 seasons for Martin and Ablett based on average Brownlow votes

2017 vs 2009
Martin vs Ablett

Now
2019 vs 2014

Now
2016 vs 2013

Now 2015 vs 2010

Now 2018 vs 2012 (did not include Martin's 2020 season as while it was technically the 5th best from an average brownlow point of view because the games were shorter the stats are off)

As you can see as we progressively go down the list the gap between Martin and Ablett gets larger and larger in Ablett's favour, and I bet if I did a 6th to 10th best seasons the gap would be huge between the two.

So in comparison

2017 vs 2009

2019 vs 2014

2016 vs 2013

2015 vs 2010

2018 vs 2012

Cleansweep17 said:

The AFL record books, Dusty has the most decorated season in the game. Nothing else will matter in time. Leigh Matthews himself said nobody has had a “greater” season than Dustin Martin.

But you know I’m sure you BF experts know more than him.

Click to expand...

Title, author and ISBN code please. Otherwise, nah.

FreddyTwoShoes said:

Title, author and ISBN code please. Otherwise, nah.

Click to expand...

Um what? He factually won these awards? Wtf else do you need. You think the AFL doesn’t keep track of them or something?

RUNVS said:

So statistically Martin's best year in Fantasy and Supercoach points were not as good as Ablett's top 5 years.

Click to expand...

You’ve resorted to SuperCoach really? I think you need to take a break from this debate, it’s clearly taken a toll on you.

RUNVS said:

So you think Leigh Matthews is the be all and end all? Also easy to find the soundbite of one person who fits your narrative.

Also if you really want to do this, lets do this. Here are the top 5 seasons for Martin and Ablett based on average Brownlow votes

2017 vs 2009
Martin vs Ablett
View attachment 1908076
View attachment 1908077

Now
2019 vs 2014
View attachment 1908080
View attachment 1908082

Now
2016 vs 2013
View attachment 1908085
View attachment 1908086

Now 2015 vs 2010
View attachment 1908087
View attachment 1908088

Now 2018 vs 2012 (did not include Martin's 2020 season as while it was technically the 5th best from an average brownlow point of view because the games were shorter the stats are off)

View attachment 1908092
View attachment 1908093

As you can see as we progressively go down the list the gap between Martin and Ablett gets larger and larger in Ablett's favour, and I bet if I did a 6th to 10th best seasons the gap would be huge between the two.

Click to expand...

If the record books say it is and Leigh Matthews says it is. I don’t need anything else. It’s a fact. You’re just going to have to cope with it.

PhatBoy said:

Yeah but he didn’t, did he, bro.
He just won a medal and other than that posted inferior output in basically every number imaginable.

Otherwise yeah, he ‘destroyed him’

He destroyed him but. Bro.

Tragic?

Oh yeah I’m sure when the police come to take our cups we will have no choice but to hand over the keys to the trophy cabinet

Yes yes very tragic

Click to expand...

The umpires and coaches thought Cotchin had a better season than GAJ in 2012 it’s in the books. End of story you lose.

Cleansweep17 said:

If the record books say it is and Leigh Matthews says it is. I don’t need anything else. It’s a fact. You’re just going to have to cope with it.

Click to expand...

You keep saying "record book" but there is no book.

Also going off one guy who probably has not watched more than around 2 matches a week for over a decade probably is not a good idea.

Cleansweep17 said:

You’ve resorted to SuperCoach really? I think you need to take a break from this debate, it’s clearly taken a toll on you.

Click to expand...

Take a look at the more detailed statistics then. I posted them above the supercoach and fantasy stats.

RUNVS said:

You keep saying "record book" but there is no book.

Also going off one guy who probably has not watched more than around 2 matches a week for over a decade probably is not a good idea.

Take a look at the more detailed statistics then. I posted them above the supercoach and fantasy stats.

Click to expand...

I mean ffs he won the awards did he not?!?!?!?

Google it if you aren’t sure I mean f me

Cleansweep17 said:

I mean ffs he won the awards did he not?!?!?!?

Google it if you aren’t sure I mean f me

Click to expand...

So that is all you have?

Martin was the best midfielder at Richmond during three games where he didn't even need to be there for Richmond to win and somehow that makes him the bestest player evr in the entire world?

RUNVS said:

You keep saying "record book" but there is no book.

Also going off one guy who probably has not watched more than around 2 matches a week for over a decade probably is not a good idea.

Take a look at the more detailed statistics then. I posted them above the supercoach and fantasy stats.

Click to expand...

Not sure if you realise but awards are based on influence in games. They are the only stats the matter. Besides I prefer Dustys stats in 2017 anyway. 30 and 1.5 is better than 33 and 1.2 especially when he got it done in the finals and GF.

Cleansweep17 said:

Not sure if you realise but awards are based on influence in games. They are the only stats the matter. Besides I prefer Dustys stats in 2017 anyway. 30 and 1.5 is better than 33 and 1.2 especially when he got it done the the finals and GF.

Click to expand...

Tell me honestly, do you really think Martin made any difference to the results in those Grand Finals? Would Richmond have lost without him?

Cleansweep17 said:

The umpires and coaches thought Cotchin had a better season than GAJ in 2012 it’s in the books. End of story you lose.

Click to expand...

End of story, it means nothing mate.

He didn’t destroy anything.

He won trinkets.

You can point to the awards all you want mate, it doesn’t change anything. Good luck to him, it’s how the award works. If that’s what you’re pinning your home run on - ‘oh dear, Gary Ablett won the game’s highest honour only two times and another time he absolutely tore Trent Cotchin a new a-hole in every major numerical category but didn’t win the medal’ - then good luck to you

RUNVS said:

So that is all you have?

Martin was the best midfielder at Richmond during three games where he didn't even need to be there for Richmond to win and somehow that makes him the bestest player evr in the entire world?

Click to expand...

Plus the record finals mvp

And record breaking season.

Yes because nobody has done it or will ever do it again. That’s how hard it is.

RUNVS said:

Tell me honestly, do you really think Martin made any difference to the results in those Grand Finals? Would Richmond have lost without him?

Click to expand...

2020 GF yes.

And without Dusty we wouldn’t have made top 4 in any years and won the flags.

True or not true?

Cleansweep17 said:

Plus the record finals mvp

And record breaking season.

Yes because nobody has done it or will ever do it again. That’s how hard it is.

Click to expand...

and yet 80% of people voted Ablett as the better player, and I think only 3.5% of people voted for Martin, and I am willing to bet most of those people are Richmond fans.

PhatBoy said:

End of story, it means nothing mate.

He didn’t destroy anything.

He won trinkets.

You can point to the awards all you want mate, it doesn’t change anything. Good luck to him, it’s how the award works. If that’s what you’re pinning your home run on - ‘oh dear, Gary Ablett won the game’s highest honour only two times and another time he absolutely tore Trent Cotchin a new a-hole in every major numerical category but didn’t win the medal’ - then good luck to you

Click to expand...

So you think your opinion overrules the coaches and umpires.

Interesting position to take. Not sure it’s very persuading. But you go ahead and use your eye test and bigfooty polls

Cleansweep17 said:

2020 GF yes.

And without Dusty we wouldn’t have made top 4 in any years and won the flags.

True or not true?

Click to expand...

You are moving the goal posts there a bit.

I can honestly say without Andrejs Everitt Sydney would not have won the 2012 Grand Final either.

RUNVS said:

and yet 80% of people voted Ablett as the better player, and I think only 3.5% of people voted for Martin, and I am willing to bet most of those people are Richmond fans.

Click to expand...

Of course we live in Australia were we don’t care about finals or peak performance and he is still playing. Not to mention the nostalgia boost he is going to get from retiring from this gen later on.

RUNVS said:

You are moving the goal posts there a bit.

I can honestly say without Andrejs Everitt Sydney would not have won the 2012 Grand Final either.

Click to expand...

Great now what about the other 2 two times. Dusty has done it 3 times whilst being the best player in the team in H&A, finals and GF.

Name me a player who has done that. Hint, you won’t.

Cleansweep17 said:

Great now what about the 2 two times. Dusty has done it 3 times.

Click to expand...

So you are saying the rest of Richmond are crap if they can't possibly win a flag without Martin. Was only a bit earlier in the thread you were saying how amazing Cotchin was, but I guess he isn't so amazing if you say Richmond stood no chance of a flag without Martin.

RUNVS said:

So you are saying the rest of Richmond are crap if they can't possibly win a flag without Martin. Was only a bit earlier in the thread you were saying how amazing Cotchin was, but I guess he isn't so amazing if you say Richmond stood no chance of a flag without Martin.

Click to expand...

Yes.

But fortunately he’s in the team so I don’t have to worry about it.

RUNVS said:

So you are saying the rest of Richmond are crap if they can't possibly win a flag without Martin. Was only a bit earlier in the thread you were saying how amazing Cotchin was, but I guess he isn't so amazing if you say Richmond stood no chance of a flag without Martin.

Click to expand...

Nobody in the afl era has carried a team to flags more than Martin. Nobody has had more influence since maybe lethal.

If I’m wrong name me that player. And let’s compare the premiership year awards.

This is why he’s great. When a player does something like that for your club, come back to me and discuss whether you give a s**t about some sh*tty awards from Gold Coast from some other bloke.

I wouldn’t hold my breath though, you will never experience it which is why you hold the view that you do.

Cleansweep17 said:

Nobody in the afl era has carried a team to flags more than Martin. Nobody has had more influence since maybe lethal.

If I’m wrong name me that player. And let’s compare the premiership year awards.

This is why he’s great. When a player does something like that for your club, come back to me and discuss whether you give a s**t about some sh*tty awards from Gold Coast from some other bloke.

I wouldn’t hold my breath though, you will never experience it which is why you hold the view that you do.

Click to expand...

So you have admitted that guys like Cotchin and Riewoldt are not actually that good.